Steam Dev Days : Day 2

Here’s what I learned in the second day of Steam Dev Days.

Trading is something we need to do for Rust. This is something we really need to think about exactly how we go about it.. but trading adds an infinite amount of value to the games it’s added to.. and that value is multiplied by the amount of games using trading. So this is something we need to look at in Rust. Whether that be trading blueprints, or items we don’t know. Don’t take this to mean that you’ll have to pay out of game for items and blueprints.. because that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re saying that maybe you obtain two of the same blueprints.. maybe you could trade that spare blueprint in Steam’s marketplace for another blueprint.. or a TF2 hat.. or even a game(!).

We need to find a way to let the community help us make the game. In the same way that the TF2 community builds hats and weapons for TF2.. I’m sure we can find a way to empower the community to help us build the game a million times faster than we do already. The obvious way is to get the community working on items. In the minimum they only need a name, description and icon. Then we could link items.. and the community could help with that too. [blood] + [cooked in fire] = [black pudding]. This needs more planning.. but at the same time even if we don’t have the community working on the items it’d be pretty awesome just for us.

Virtual reality doesn’t work for most modern games. We need to make games designed for it. Attaching a camera to an FPS guy and driving him around doesn’t really make a good experience. Sitting in a car does, sitting in a helicopter does. One of the Valve demos had a table you could walk around with an office containing lots of the portal people on top. That got me excited.. because they were all going above their business. I love god games. I could instantly imagine playing a game like that with the headset on. All it was missing was some way to interact and I would have happily stood and played.

UI doesn’t work in virtual reality. The UI should be in the world, not stuck to your eyes. That’s probably something that is glaringly obvious as soon as you try it.

There was a talk on Unity that I didn’t attend, but they showed a bunch of games on Steam that are built using Unity. They called Rust ‘one of the bigger ones’! I heard the talk described as a car crash.

There was also an Alienware talk. I heard it described sarcastically as “kick ass”.

There was a party on the night so I decided to have a powernap.. and ended up missing a talk on VAC that I really should have attended. So I’ll have to wait until it comes out on dvd :)

The talk on “The Corporate Anthropology of Valve” was cancelled, so we never found out what Gabe’s most important professional failure was, or how Valve employees get fired.

32 thoughts on “Steam Dev Days : Day 2

  1. Well, I think that you need to sell them somehow, otherwise they can’t be traded for paid products. TF2 stuff can be bought, and that’s why it can be traded for games and etc. If you give blueprints for free, you will be giving paid stuff for free! (and that would certainly break Steam’s microeconomy). I don’t know how you’ll tackle that, but I personally would recommend in-game trading only.

  2. Your ideas are all bad, it is too bad for people who bought rust in this state because it will never be good, you are trying to make it into a GMod clone, and believe it or not but GMOD only appeals to a certain niche, a totally different group of people than are attracted by survival games. I think you need to bring in a consultant Garry, because you seriously are not cutting it.

  3. We know it’s not designed for VR, we know that it will be by far not a perfect experience. But please just fix the VR support for gmod. You don’t even need to optimize interfaces like the HUD. There are a lot of modes that could actually be pretty amazing in VR. A lot of people are hoping for this to happen.

  4. I love the idea of trading items and the community working on them! Maybe we could get some different clothes and recipes as you already mentioned.

    The only problem I see with trading items like blue prints right now is that you barely have to play 3 hours to find all of them but that seems like something that will fix itself once the game becomes more complete and complex.

  5. Wow, trading blueprints and items, etc on the Steam Marketplace is the absolute worst idea I have ever heard for Rust and I am very disappointed the creator seems to think it is a good idea, he must be very out of touch with what his game actually is and why people enjoy it.

  6. The trading idea is great in concept, but would be difficult to implement with permadeath in game. Trading is entirely possible in game so I see no need for a trading meta outside of it.However workshop support is a great idea, I can’t think of anything wrong with, especially considering community servers could then have the opportunity to have various items/mods from the workshop that wouldn’t be in the vanilla game.

  7. -No to Steam Market Trading Yes to in game trading,so we wont have to drop items to give to other people and also please add DOOR SHARING its pretty silly that a big group needed to have each member make his own door to a shared building just to have access to it so hey come in and out whenever the other guys are not around.
    -Yes to Workshop Support but please make it all Cosmetic if possible,say different variations of cloth armor,guns,doors etc.I for one would be interested to make such items.
    -Please add Grouping System too.Make group members’ name tag appear always or at least increase the range they appear.
    -Please add a craftable in game map or atleast a compass to help people find each other in the map.
    -Please add the ability to scroll up in game text messages.
    -Please add a way to whisper and group message in game.
    -Please make crafting items in bulk relatively faster than crafting single pieces.Say a minus ten second per 10 pieces?
    -Please add the ability to salvage/destroy parts u already built.Maybe you gain half the cost of the item(walls,doors etc) on the process
    -Please make the sun a bit smaller,at times it appears to be so huge in the horizon.
    -Please add a “stamina” system so people wont just run around chasing each other in the map,especially bandits who chases people around killing them.
    Add in food that replenishes stamina as well.

    Just some suggestions hopefully you can implement on future patches.I’d like to say that I’m enjoying the game as it is but having those stuff I mentioned above ASAP would really make it a more enjoyable experience.Thanks

  8. I think finding ways to facilitate trading better in-game would be cool (i.e. a trade mode a-la Borderlands), but feel as though trading outside of the game will only lead to players with heavy advantages over others on their server. (For instance, a team of a dozen players pooling their resources and trading on steam versus a pair of players or a lone wolf trying to do the same).

    Basically, I think any way to obtain an advantage outside of actual game-time will be a detriment to the Rust experience.

    I think the sleeper paradigm is already somewhat flawed (though still exiting) considering you have a spectrum of players, with very little time to play on one side and all the time in the world on the other. However, I think that sort of unevenness provides challenge and dynamism to the play experience (such as more incentive to team-up, or find a more hidden base/better build), whereas out-of-game trading just sounds lame.

    You already have plenty of players trading in Rust, why not just find ways to make that easier in game? Maybe a private message command, or direct chat, so players don’t have to use steam chat to set up meetings?

  9. The market in games like tf2 is cool… but it would be a big downfall for rust. The whole thing about rust is that you need to get everything yourself. Adding the market to the game would make the game lose touch with the player. Trading in came would be completely fine so that people cant jump in and take the stuff im trading… trading out of game however, is just going to ruin stuff. In tf2 the whole point is to get more items and hats and stuff over time. in rust the story is happening now and its the players job to get the items rather than buying them.

    I hope you reconsider… seriously.

  10. For the love of god, address the hacking problem before talking about community-sourcing and trading.

    Spending an hour gathering resources and hoping to get a sleeping bag set up in time and then getting killed by a script kiddie is frustrating as hell.

  11. You may also add, a team up-room so that people form groups, i dont have any real friends that play this stuff and cant team up with anybody. Partly because im mexican and don’t speak fluid english.

    Also another thing that needs serious attention and that you mention in your frontpage is defence. Pay some expert on military strategy and history or something, its really frustrating that anyone can raid a base just like that. And that is expensive and hard to build.

  12. Implementing a shop that works out of game seems like a very sad idea, as it compromises the “me trying to survive against everything and everyone” feeling that makes rust so intense to play. Speaking from a dramatical view point (as i am a screenwriter), an option like that would break the fourth wall of the game. Allowing you to obtain things out of the context of your personal server-world.
    I do like the idea of letting the community model items, especially if those items only change the looks of your armor and your weapons. In a way, a customizable look (even if just colors of your armor) would make your in game buddies more recognizable, thus helping ppl. who cry for a “Team-View-Option” while keeping the games realism and survival aspect intact. Plus i like the idea of being recognized by color and thus feared on my server :-)
    Otherwise: Your game rocks mate(s), it really does. I hope you see the many many bought versions of Rust as a down payment for your good work to come, not as an excuse to party all night and stop doing the good work you did so far…
    Oh and if you could get rid of or at least make it hard to hack the game, it would be appreciated. Nothing is as frustrating and by that as dangerous to a young game community as unhindered cheating and hacking.

    Greetz,

    Stefan from Germany.
    P.S.: As you might have realized, english is not my mother tongue. So please excuse any typos or flat out mistakes.

  13. I think that implemented correctly, Steam Marketplace would be an excellent source of revenue for the Rust devs, and I think we can all agree that the more money thrown at Rust, the better for all of us.

    I love starting with a rock and working my way up one painful blow at a time until I am shooting naked blokes in the face just for my own amusement as much as the next guy.. It helps me unwind after a long day, and honestly, I’m not always in the mood to well, start with a rock. So give me a choice – Marketplace enabled servers and ‘hardcore’ Marketplace disabled servers. Sometimes I’ll be glad to throw down 10 bucks and start the game with enough resources to build a shotgun, ammo, full kevlar and 15 damn cloth for a sleeping bag. Maybe on the marketplace enabled server you lose one known blueprint for every death, encouraging more purchases

  14. I don’t think many of us keep playing if people could just drop 10$ to buy kevlar or spend 5$ for a full radsuit. What would be the point? Rust is about surviving and it should stay that way. It’s not about how much money we can put into it so the dev is happy.

    Buying crap at the steam store would totally ruin this game. If you don’t want to start with a rock then plan ahead. Make a base or find some friends. But everyone needs to start out the same and build their way up. If someone has to resource all of their own material then they will appreciate their hard earned items and try and hold onto them.

    Being able to buy items at the steam store for in game play is an absolute gamebreaker. Say me and 10 of my buddies like your server, we decide that this nice place could be ruined in a day. So we all throw down 10$ buy some m4’s, some kevlar, and a ton of c4. Are you really gonna be happy when we kill the shit out of you and you end up buying that same kevlar suit from one of us at the steam store?

  15. Gabe’s most important professional failure: exceeding load capacity of his gym-ball desk chair. It maked him rage more than the HL2 leak.

  16. Garry I have gone through most of the cards on trello and other forum discussions I really enjoy the game as is and am keenly awaiting the opportunity to help.(That’s why I signed up in the first place)

    I get that vr and 3d are growing markets and it’s never a bad idea to expand there. (I spotted a pretty good example of a hud that would work for vr facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1348825)

  17. You realize that Admins on a server can just spawn there own stuff right? Making separate Id’s for the spawned in ones. Say a hatchet is one and the spawned one is two; understand that would mean adding in awhole bunch more stuff…it’s just an idea.(This could possibly help with hacking and make it so)

  18. Well…….That’s a garbage idea “Just as bad as free wards in LoL” Think for even one minute what that does to the in game Meta. Your making a lot of money already Please don’t get to greedy. Thanks!
    Want to do something good for the game
    Make more defensive structures traps,Metal barricades,fences,barbwire.
    Base defense is slim to none in this game. anything so far can be avoided by a barricade and a large wood storage,
    listen to the steam community there’s enough idea’s with them to make this game great
    Admins will just get there friends to zombie hunt with spawned gear…this idea can never happen if this game is to grow
    Not even in game trading can be done…its the thrill that you can just kill the guy and take it anyways or the other way around

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